Ron: Lex education is all around.
Laura: Hello, and welcome to a very special, sexy episode of Lex Education, the comedy science podcast, where two siblings do Valentine's Day together and talk about science.
Laura: It's me, comedian Laura Lex, and it's Ron, her brother.
Laura: Hello, Ron.
Ron: No descriptors today.
Laura: I called you my brother.
Laura: That's pretty cool.
Ron: Yeah, I suppose it is.
Ron: Hello, I'm Ron.
Laura: You are the only person in the world that gets to be my brother.
Ron: You've got a brother in law?
Laura: It's not the same.
Ron: No, I wouldn't do a podcast with.
Laura: Any of my brother in laws.
Laura: Really?
Ron: Oh, yeah.
Ron: You've got several.
Laura: Actually, I've got three.
Ron: Yeah, pretty good.
Laura: So have you.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: No, yeah, I've got two.
Laura: You've got three?
Ron: I've got three, actually, I do a podcast with two of them.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: What would they be about?
Ron: With the strong one, it would be music.
Ron: With your one, it could be a lot of things.
Laura: Yeah, you two could.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: My one is like the swiss army knife of people.
Ron: Swiss army knives are pretty useful.
Laura: He's downstairs right now trying to get some boop out of our child.
Laura: That's all good.
Ron: He's a multifaceted, interesting thing.
Ron: I don't think that swiss army knife is.
Ron: He's more like one of those big remote controls that has a button for everything.
Laura: I'll take it.
Laura: Yeah, fair.
Laura: That's fine.
Laura: How are you, Ron?
Laura: You were saying off, Mike, that you're in pain because you started to do a very stupid thing.
Ron: Well, I really enjoy running, so I decided to go for a run yesterday because I'm just getting back into my fitness and stuff.
Ron: Well, I'm not just getting back into my fitness.
Laura: You've been going to the gym for ages.
Ron: Yeah, the weather's gotten better, so now I can do fitness outside.
Ron: And then.
Ron: So I live in South Bristol.
Ron: A really nice area near me is called Lee woods, which is kind of on the bank of the river.
Laura: How is spelling, Lee?
Ron: You want to have a guess?
Ron: Lealeigh.
Laura: Oh.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: So I run down the river.
Laura: Like Jesus.
Ron: What?
Laura: You run down the river?
Laura: It was a walking water bit.
Laura: Sorry, you were thinking.
Laura: I thought it was called Jesus Lee Christ.
Ron: Yeah, Jesus Lee Christ.
Ron: No.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: So I'm running down the side of the river.
Ron: There's a nice path there, and then there's lots of, like, turnings where you can go into leewoods, and then you run up the hill, and then you can go over the Clifton suspension bridge into Clifton, and then you go down through there, and then you can come back to my house.
Ron: I'd brought a cup of tea in a thermos, and I'd brought a book because what I was going to running.
Laura: With a cup of tea in a.
Ron: Thermos in a bag, because I was going to go to Clifton Downs.
Ron: I was going to run to Clifton Downs, sit down, have a nice cup of tea, read my book for a bit, and then run home again.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: So I'm running down the river, and then I'm looking at these turnings on the left, and I'm going, okay.
Ron: I get to one and I go, all right, next one.
Ron: Because I'd seen on the map there was something called the Lee woods grotto.
Ron: So I was like, got to see a grotto when you're in the vicinity.
Ron: So I kept running and I couldn't find the grotto.
Ron: It turns out the grotto is, like, up the hill.
Ron: And I was like, down by the river.
Ron: And then I was like, that's fine, I'll just take the next left.
Ron: And then there wasn't another left until a town called pill.
Laura: That's quite far out.
Ron: So I ran to Pearland.
Laura: Back.
Ron: Yeah, it's 5 miles away.
Ron: It's where peel is.
Laura: 10 miles.
Laura: That's a big run, isn't it?
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: And considering in my current fitness, seven.
Laura: And a half, eight k.
Laura: No, that's like.
Laura: Are shorter.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: And in my current fitness journey, I'd only actually been on one other run, and I wasn't expecting this run to be so big, so I hadn't stretched or particularly prepared for it.
Laura: No.
Laura: You had a thermos of tea in your boot.
Ron: I did sit by the river for a bit and drink my tea and watch the wading birds.
Laura: You're very trustworthy of your thermos that it isn't going to spill and splash everywhere.
Ron: Yes.
Laura: It's a proper thermos bottle, not a cup.
Ron: Well, no, it's like a cup, but it's just got a lid.
Laura: Wow.
Laura: Do you pour the tea into the lid to drink it, or do you just drink it from the thermos top?
Ron: Pour the tea into the lid.
Ron: Oh, no, sorry.
Ron: No, it's got a hole in it.
Ron: You can drink out of this.
Laura: I see.
Laura: No, I was thinking the other day about when thermoses.
Laura: This might be before you remember, but they used to have glass in them, and if you drop them, they'd smash, and then they'd just be tea and glass.
Ron: I've still got one that's got glass in it.
Ron: But now they do it where it's like metal.
Ron: Glass.
Ron: Metal.
Laura: Oh, well, it doesn't feel like you need the glass then.
Laura: If you just put a vacuum between.
Ron: The metal, I presume the glass is doing something.
Laura: What's it doing?
Ron: I don't know.
Laura: What you want to make is a thermos that's got heating elements through it and then you can turn it on and just judge a little bit.
Ron: No.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: No, that's overcomplicating.
Laura: No.
Ron: Thermoses work really well.
Laura: Not really well.
Ron: We literally had this conversation in the last episode we recorded.
Ron: You know this, right?
Ron: We've already chatted about thermoses and you want one that's going to heat it.
Laura: Another invention, Ron?
Laura: Sorry, I'm just spitting inventions.
Ron: A one that nobody wants.
Laura: It would sell.
Laura: I've worked in a bouchie kitchen shop.
Laura: It would sell.
Ron: I guarantee that's been done.
Ron: And it failed and bombed and failed.
Laura: You look like the manager of a new look where somebody is telling you that a problem has happened in the stockroom.
Laura: You're just putting one hand to your headphones and looking at the sky whilst listening intently.
Ron: I just turned on the noise canceling because I hadn't turned it on yet.
Laura: It won't shut me up.
Laura: No, I'm in your brain.
Ron: No, but it shuts out the cars and stuff.
Laura: Yeah, I can't hear any cars.
Ron: That's good.
Laura: It's very early for us.
Laura: It's 08:42 a.m.
Laura: On a Sunday.
Laura: Yeah, but listen, Ron, it's a special episode today.
Laura: Valentine's episode.
Ron: Yeah.
Laura: Now, last year we did animal Love island.
Laura: We found the animals that we would put into love island and we made them pair up.
Laura: This year, Ron is going to be talking to us about the science of love, what makes us feel in love, and I have compiled my list of top ten shaggable animals.
Ron: Yes, the duality of the podcast.
Ron: All right, Laura, before we get in to discuss what the science of love.
Laura: Do you want my first animal?
Ron: You're in charge of the peppering.
Ron: So if you think.
Laura: Now, we've got to fit ten across the episode.
Laura: So that's roughly one every ten minutes, Ron.
Laura: No, it isn't.
Laura: That would be 100 minutes episode every six minutes.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: And we're already chatted from one minutes in.
Ron: Yeah, go for it.
Laura: Now, have I got these?
Laura: I haven't particularly got these in a top ten order because I don't know exactly what order they would be in, but my first animal on the list is going to be a big leatherback turtle.
Laura: Why are you ughing that's f****** unhinged.
Ron: It's just starting with leatherback turtles.
Laura: They're like the Tom Sellecks of the sea.
Ron: What are you talking?
Laura: They are old and wide, lean and handsome.
Ron: Tom Selleck is nothing like what looks like.
Ron: It looks like a roof rack.
Laura: Leatherback, though.
Ron: Yeah, I'm looking at a leatherback.
Ron: I know.
Ron: Leatherback.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: They're majestic and ancient and graceful and wise because they've been alive for so long.
Laura: And the leatherness would smell important and knowledgeable, like, ooh, and cigar smoke.
Laura: And I'm putting them in.
Laura: Okay, well, you've picked the ugliest leatherback there.
Laura: Hang on.
Laura: Let me find a sexy leatherback.
Laura: Leatherback turtle.
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Look at you, you beastie.
Laura: Yeah, go on the National Geographic one.
Laura: And look at that one.
Laura: Much nicer.
Laura: They also have cute babies.
Ron: Don't f*** the babies.
Laura: F****** the babies.
Laura: But I'm saying a side effect of sex is babies.
Laura: I don't want to do that.
Laura: National Geographic.
Laura: Okay, well, there we go.
Laura: In at number ten.
Laura: It's the leatherback turtle.
Ron: That's so weird.
Laura: Okay, what would you have put in at number ten then?
Laura: The whole thing's weird, Ron.
Laura: It's a list of animals.
Ron: A list of animals you asked to make.
Ron: It's just leatherback turtles.
Ron: Just not.
Ron: This was just f****** a sentient roof rack.
Ron: Okay, ten.
Laura: I'm not saying it's number one.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Laura?
Laura: Yeah?
Ron: Before we get into the science of love.
Laura: Yep.
Ron: We're going to talk.
Ron: Let's just clarify.
Laura: Once in my life, what is love?
Laura: Baby, don't hurt me no more that's.
Ron: The only Hadaway break we're having.
Laura: Why?
Ron: Because we've done it before.
Laura: People love it.
Laura: Most people are only still subscribed, waiting for more Hadaway.
Ron: Answer the question.
Laura: Most of the comments we get on episodes are no hadaway this week.
Laura: Fuming.
Laura: What did you say?
Laura: What is love?
Laura: Love is the creation of hormones in your body that make you feel safe and content with people.
Ron: Wrong.
Ron: Love's just a way for people to hurt you and make you change.
Ron: But we're still going to find out what's going on inside a person while this is happening.
Ron: Okay, so Dr.
Ron: Helen Fisher at Rutgers is kind of the expert of the time on what's going on at love.
Ron: There are three types of love, she says, and they're controlled by different hormones.
Laura: That's what I said.
Ron: Different feedback cycles within you.
Ron: So she says that there are three types, lust, attraction and attachment.
Laura: Oh, okay.
Ron: Now, obviously, we need to take everything that Dr.
Ron: Helen Fisher says with a pinch of salt.
Laura: Why?
Ron: Because she's a woman.
Ron: So she doesn't know how to love, only how to stamp it out.
Ron: In other.
Laura: Oh, we should have done this episode before you were a broken shell of a man.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: I'm joking, though.
Ron: We shouldn't trust her because she forgot the fourth part of love, which is pain.
Ron: Anyway.
Ron: So first type of love, Laura, is lust.
Laura: Yes.
Ron: The two hormones responsible for this.
Ron: What's happening?
Laura: The charging cable on my laptop is dodgy and it keeps going dark and then going blowing when it is recharging again.
Laura: And it's very annoying.
Ron: That is annoying, especially on a podcast.
Laura: Yeah, I think you can't hear that bit.
Ron: I can.
Laura: What, the blowing noise?
Ron: Yes.
Ron: Oh, that's how I knew something was happening.
Ron: And then I asked you, what's going on?
Laura: Why is it not coming through my headphones?
Laura: That noise.
Ron: Anyway, wait, do you have it set up so that you can hear yourself?
Laura: No, but just all noise comes through the computer headphones.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: So you can hear yourself when you speak in your headphones?
Laura: No, I can hear myself in my head.
Ron: So why would the blonde come through the microphone and go into your headphones but not your own voice?
Laura: Because everything from my computer is coming through my headphones.
Ron: Oh, I see.
Ron: It's not getting picked up by the microphone.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Oh, God.
Ron: Anyway, so lust is controlled by two hormones.
Ron: I don't think it would come as a surprise to anyone that these two hormones are testosterone and estrogen.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Which are made where Laura balls and ovaries.
Ron: That's exactly how I have it written as well.
Ron: So lust is essentially just the sexual desire is sexual desire, and it's driven by the need to reproduce.
Laura: Nice.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: It's the bit that just, it's when you see a holly with a body, the hypothalamus then tells there's a guy.
Laura: Running past you with the sound of t sloshing about in his fjar raven backpack and his noise canceling headphones.
Laura: You need to grab him and kiss him on a riverbank.
Ron: It's such a horrible river bank.
Ron: Slimy.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: It stimulates your balls and your ovaries to start producing testosterone and estrogen.
Laura: See, I'm at the phase of my life where that is gone now because I'm too old and I've been with my partner for too long.
Laura: And when I had all my contraceptive change last week, that I had to really fight them because they were like, we can't take your coil out and put your implant in in the same day, because there's a week where your implant will not work, so you have to wait.
Laura: I was like, how about you just do it and I just don't f****** for a week?
Laura: I'm sure we'll both cope.
Laura: How about that?
Laura: And they were like, oh, I don't know, blah, blah, blah.
Laura: And I was like, look, I don't even remember the phase of my life where that would be problematic to have a week.
Laura: We have a one year old and very clashing schedules.
Laura: Can we have a separate sexual health clinic for the married over sexually active people who can't stop?
Laura: Because the talk that you need at my point in life is very different to the one I needed at 21.
Ron: But also, then who am I to tell an overly stretched NHS on how to deal with these things?
Ron: But just like, why are they booking two appointments?
Ron: Just give you some f****** Johnny's?
Laura: I think they did offer me some and there were loads in a little sweet bowl on the table as I was waiting.
Laura: Being in that clinic waiting room, though, it is such a sign of life gone by.
Laura: There were loads of students coming in, like, in pairs, doing stuff.
Laura: And you're just like, looking at everybody in different phases and going, God, I am the dullest person in this room in at number nine.
Laura: Ron, pandas.
Laura: Because it's basically charity work to f*** a.
Laura: Yeah, yeah.
Ron: You've got a week to f*** a panda.
Ron: Maybe I'll knock you up and you can save the.
Laura: Yeah, or I'll knock them up because we don't really know how they work.
Laura: They seem to be a bit mysterious.
Laura: It's all gone wrong.
Laura: Humanoid is always easier to imagine, isn't it?
Ron: You see how I'm not fighting you.
Laura: On this one because all they're eating is bamboo.
Laura: So that's going to be cleaning the teeth, isn't it?
Laura: That's going to be good.
Laura: It's not very sugary because it's not very nutritious.
Ron: Vegan.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Pandas in at number nine.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: See, I'm not fighting you on this one.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: It's a big cuddly bear.
Ron: Rich as well, probably.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Well, not as well.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Maybe a bit pampered, maybe a bit.
Laura: Of a.
Laura: Yeah, it's not going to be an exciting.
Laura: They might cry during.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: So anyway, as I was saying, hypothalamus, when you're lustful, tells your balls and your ovaries to start producing.
Ron: Now, it's important to note here that testosterone and estrogen are obviously fairly gendered, as hormones go, but they both play a role in both sexes when it comes to the feeling of lust.
Ron: And actually, estrogen just doesn't have as much of an effect as testosterone.
Ron: So, yeah, women do produce testosterone as well, as we've discussed, and that has a bigger effect than estrogen.
Ron: But estrogen does have an effect because women have reported being more sexually motivated at the time when they are ovulating, which is when there is the most estrogen in their system.
Laura: Sorry, the ding noise was happening again.
Ron: I know.
Laura: I then got very distracted thinking about testosterone levels in women and athletics and how they're like, oh, your testosterone level must be under a certain thing in order to compete.
Laura: And how, from what I can tell from the discourse, that's kind of bullshit, because we produce it naturally and it's not like it's the male.
Laura: Testosterone is like, we've got hold of the man's thing somehow and we shouldn't have it.
Laura: It's perfectly natural in women.
Laura: And it's okay that some people have more and it makes them better at sport.
Laura: That's the whole point of competing at sport, is we're looking for the people who are best at it.
Ron: Yeah, you could have said that out loud.
Laura: Sorry.
Laura: The dinging was distracting me.
Laura: Did you see.
Laura: I saw a little clickbaity article that I did not click on and read, but I read the title about some billionaire dudes funding a doped Olympics.
Ron: Oh, yeah, I did see that.
Ron: What is going on with my laptop?
Laura: This is infuriating.
Laura: Stop it.
Laura: In at number eight.
Laura: A nice horse.
Laura: Maybe a shire horse.
Ron: A shire horse.
Laura: I'm the boy.
Laura: I'm the boy.
Laura: They're just majestic and big and stable, dependable.
Laura: They'd make a good life partner.
Ron: Stable?
Laura: Hooven.
Laura: That's nothing.
Laura: Shire horses are good temperament.
Laura: They don't cheat because they got those little blinkers on so they're not chasing a load of snatchy tail across the.
Laura: I've also been watching a lot of pole dark lately, so I've been watching a lot of horses in at number eight.
Laura: It's a nice horse.
Ron: Should we carry on?
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I think the beeping is stopped for now.
Ron: Okay.
Laura: How do you feel about a nice horse?
Ron: I.
Ron: Not a big horse person, to be honest.
Ron: I don't mind them, but also I think they're so associated with aristocracy that.
Laura: But not a shire horse.
Laura: That's a working man's horse.
Laura: That's a mine horse.
Laura: You know, that's a f****** country horse.
Laura: I'm not talking a hunt horse.
Ron: Yeah, you don't know that, though.
Laura: I do know that picture.
Laura: A shire horse.
Ron: Yeah, exactly.
Ron: You're just picturing.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: You don't actually know who owns shire horses because I bet it's the landed gentry.
Laura: What's a shire horse for?
Laura: What's a shire horse for?
Laura: Oh, yeah.
Laura: Look at those little feet.
Laura: That one's got a lovely tail.
Laura: A talent for weight pulling.
Laura: Originally developed and used as a workhorse, carrying out tasks such as cart pulling, farmwork, and barge towing.
Ron: Yes, I know, Laura.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: But we don't live in this wind in the willows, f****** wheelbarrow and hammer life that you think that we do.
Laura: I'm in a list where I'm picking animals to mate with for the rest of my life.
Ron: Of your own design.
Laura: You said the episodes were better when I had input.
Ron: Yeah, the specials are.
Ron: This didn't have to be the input.
Ron: I don't want to hear about which.
Ron: I don't want to hear about which animals you want to input into or input into me.
Laura: Either way, Ron and I am switching them about depending on the animal for death reasons.
Laura: But anyway, I am picturing these couplings, and I am in a costume that matches the animal I'm with.
Ron: So attraction works a bit differently to lust.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: Actually, I did want to say on the Olympics thing, I don't really care to see a doped up Olympics.
Laura: Don't you?
Laura: I think it'd be kind of rad.
Ron: It would only be rad if there's, like, a baseline.
Ron: Because even with the normal Olympics, it's just like, all the fast people are running together, and then you can't.
Ron: Okay, one's a bit faster than the other one.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: I would be interested in a doped up Olympics if it was doped up.
Ron: Person versus normal athlete versus a pretty fit civilian versus schlub.
Laura: Like a park run, dude.
Laura: A marine, an olympian, and a doped olympian.
Ron: Exactly.
Ron: That's what I want to see.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Then I'm interested anyway.
Ron: Attraction, though.
Ron: So attraction is a bit different.
Ron: Obviously, lust is using the sexual hormones that we've talked about before.
Ron: They're really important in your puberty and sexual development and stuff.
Ron: The attraction pathway, the attraction actually takes.
Ron: Laura, I can't do this.
Ron: Go get Tom's charger.
Laura: Just unplug it.
Laura: How much charge have I got?
Laura: I've got 34%.
Laura: We'll see how.
Ron: Go get Tom's charger.
Laura: No, I don't want to go back downstairs.
Laura: Everyone will squawk at me and need me for stuff.
Laura: Just for an hour and get to come up here and be good old dumb bins from the before times.
Ron: Fair.
Ron: So, attraction hijacks what is basically the reward pathway in your brain.
Ron: So it uses two hormones, dopamine and noradrenaline, or norepinephrine.
Laura: Okay, talk me through that in more layman's terms.
Ron: It hijacks the reward pathways in your brain, basically.
Ron: So dopamine is released when you do something that you perceive to be sort of good for you.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: Which is linked with things like addiction and stuff.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: Because you're getting that dopamine hit, and.
Laura: You never quite know what does it do you like?
Laura: I'm playing a stupid game on my phone, which is just, like, matching three things, but it's quite a nice, mindless thing, and I find it puts me to sleep really well at the end of the day.
Laura: But what I find is I'll be doing a level and I'll be super tired, and I think, yeah, okay, tap the screen, and then I'm done.
Laura: And then at the end of the level, there's something really satisfying about the way all the shelves disappear, and suddenly I want to do another one.
Laura: There must be something in that that makes my brain go, you have completed a good thing.
Laura: Do another one.
Ron: Yeah, exactly.
Ron: All of these games sort of prey off of that.
Ron: They know how to sort of eke it out, because also the rewards are diminishing and stuff if you just get the dopamine hit from one thing for too long.
Ron: And dopamine levels are associated with a lot of the sort of tropes of early phases of a relationship, where it can almost feel like you have to see them, like a compulsion.
Ron: And that's because you're missing that.
Ron: It's said in my research it's related to feeling giddy, energetic, euphoric, and can even lead to a decreased appetite and insomnia.
Laura: Wow.
Laura: I've never had that much dopamine.
Laura: Nothing stops sleeping.
Ron: The interesting thing with this is that the other hormone is noradrenaline or norepinephrine.
Laura: I can't hear that outside of the context of noravirus.
Laura: So I'm like, oh, no, it's an adrenaline that makes you puke.
Ron: No, I don't actually know the structure of the molecule, but nor will just be like, there's a tag on it or a slight modification from normal adrenaline.
Laura: Right.
Ron: Which plays a part in the flight or fight response.
Ron: So when you're attracted to someone, you're basically ready to kill people or run away.
Laura: That sums up a lot of my early relationships, actually.
Laura: Hello.
Laura: I'm going to run away now in at number seven, it's the kangaroo.
Laura: Because whilst I do think they can be fit, I think they would be a*******.
Laura: I think they'd be a very treat them keen, leave them mean kind of a date.
Laura: And whilst they've got sexy abs, I don't think it would be the nicest relationship to be in.
Ron: Fair, fair.
Ron: I see that one.
Ron: I've been thinking a lot about kangaroos recently.
Ron: Yeah, they're just weird guys.
Laura: They're really weird.
Laura: I think about kangaroos a lot.
Laura: Kangaroos are just like, what a mad way to have developed.
Laura: The thing I always think about on kangaroos is one documentary where it talks about to keep cool.
Laura: They lick their forearms.
Ron: Oh, yeah, I've seen that.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: Smart.
Ron: I would never have thought of that.
Laura: I love all the TikTok videos that you get of kangaroos turning up on people's porches and standing outside their windows and wanting to fight.
Ron: Yeah, I've not seen that.
Laura: I bet kangaroos have a lot of testosterone.
Ron: Why?
Laura: They just look like they do, don't they?
Laura: Like you could make a marsupials.
Ron: The way that they breed is so weird.
Laura: You could imagine a bunch of kangaroos causing a problem in an oceana, you know?
Ron: What do you mean an oceana?
Laura: Like a nightclub.
Laura: Like, let's kangaroos.
Ron: Is that like a chain of nightclubs?
Ron: Yeah, but, you know, that's also like another name for the continent where they live.
Laura: Oh, my gosh, you're such a dweeb.
Ron: Yeah, that was just a confusing thing to say.
Laura: The only other chain I can think about is walkabout and that is also very australian weather.
Laura: Spoons.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: All right.
Ron: Okay.
Ron: You want to take another run at it?
Laura: No, I want you to just be a cooler man.
Laura: Imagine, right.
Laura: Kangaroos would absolutely wear Ben Sherman.
Ron: What's that?
Laura: What?
Ron: Ben Sherman.
Laura: It's like that white shirt with the little blue checkered bit around the collar.
Laura: You know, picture a man you don't want to talk to in the queue for something.
Laura: He's wearing a Ben Sherman shirt.
Ron: Sorry, Ben Sherman.
Ron: Wearinglessness.
Laura: I'm not.
Ron: Anyway, so then we move on to attachment.
Ron: Laura.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Attachment.
Ron: The two primary hormones here are oxytocin and vasopressin.
Laura: Vasopressin, that sounds good.
Laura: Vasopressin.
Laura: At your service, sir.
Laura: Thank you, Caesar.
Laura: There's trouble in the price.
Laura: Simba's down there.
Laura: Zazu, take Simba home.
Ron: Oxytocin is sometimes nicknamed the cuddle hormone.
Ron: It's again produced in the hypothalamus and it's released in large quantities during the following three activities sex, breastfeeding and childbirth.
Ron: What?
Laura: I just don't know if you should be having the same hormone released for all three of those.
Laura: They're very, very different states to be in.
Ron: Yeah, but there are all times where in theory, you should be bonding with the person that you're doing it with.
Laura: I've never.
Laura: Fine, but I don't think it should be on a person's to do list that they are supposed to be bonding with a child they are trying to unbond with.
Laura: I just.
Laura: Don't worry about thinking about that.
Laura: Just get them out, bond with them afterwards.
Ron: What?
Ron: What do you mean, unbond with childbirth?
Ron: No, you're supposed to fall in love with the kid when you give birth to it.
Laura: Yeah, but you're literally trying to get it out of your body.
Laura: I don't know if you need to have on your priority list bond with it.
Laura: You couldn't be.
Ron: No, the midwives aren't there, like.
Ron: Yeah, but the midwives aren't there saying, all right, turn on the oxytocin tap.
Ron: Push oxytocin, push oxytocin.
Laura: But your body happens.
Laura: Your body.
Ron: It just happens.
Laura: It just happens, yeah, because your body's making it happen.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: Why wouldn't it make it happen?
Laura: Well, because if it wants you to bond with it, make your vag bigger so that it can come out a bit easier.
Ron: No, we sacrifice that so we could walk.
Laura: Well, I don't like walking enough to care for that, thank you very much.
Ron: It's the sacrifice humans made.
Laura: Fine.
Ron: Look at you, muting to burp.
Laura: It was a cough.
Laura: No, I cannot get rid of this cough.
Laura: Sick of it.
Ron: Have you been to the doctor?
Laura: No.
Ron: Go to the doctor.
Laura: Well, they're just going to say, yes, you've got a cough, then they're going.
Ron: To try and find out why you've got a cough.
Laura: No, they won't.
Laura: They'll just say, oh, yeah, has been a little while, hasn't it?
Laura: Come back in two weeks if you still got it.
Laura: And then I won't.
Laura: Okay, in at number six, the snow leopard.
Laura: Again.
Laura: You're doing your bit for keeping Attenborough happy because snow leopards are very endangered.
Laura: They're floofy, they're not too big as cats Wildcats go.
Laura: They're mysterious.
Laura: I reckon they've got a kind of George Clooney air of mystique about them.
Laura: They live in some beautiful areas, so you're going to get some views.
Laura: You're going to get a nice alpine retreat.
Laura: The snow leopard.
Ron: Elusive as well.
Ron: Probably just going to be a one time bang.
Ron: You won't see them again.
Laura: No, exactly.
Laura: And then you've got a great story to tell.
Ron: Oxytocin.
Ron: Laura.
Ron: It is thought that oxytocin is the hormone that is released when people take party drugs such as MDMA and GHB.
Laura: Which is apparently hair straighteners.
Laura: What, GHBS is that drug?
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: And it's behind the feel good, sociable effects that these chemicals produce.
Ron: The positive feelings are taken to an extreme, in this case, causing the user to dissociate from his or her environment and act wildly and recklessly.
Laura: I'd like to do that.
Ron: MDMA.
Laura: Yeah, do it.
Laura: Should we do a podcast episode where we've both taken MDMA?
Ron: Sure.
Laura: Okay.
Ron: I think you'd be a f****** nightmare.
Laura: Probably.
Laura: I've never done drugs.
Laura: I'm scared of my brain.
Laura: I don't want to release more bits of it.
Ron: Oxytocin has also been suggested to play a role in ethnocentrism, increasing our love for people and our already established cultural groups and making others seem foreign to us.
Laura: I wonder what purpose that serves then.
Ron: Just like kinship, it's bonding with your group.
Ron: If you think back to caveman times when people lived in small groups, more like, because modern humans have only been about like 200,000 years.
Ron: That's not that long in terms of evolution.
Ron: So we're still working with the hardware from before then.
Ron: We're living in just like troops, similar to chimpanzees or bonobos, gorillas, stuff like that.
Ron: You need to bond with the people around you because we have bet the house on cooperation as a species.
Ron: Our eyes are on the front and we're not particularly strong on our own, but we can communicate and we can work together as a group, so we have to bond with our guys.
Ron: And so we're producing oxytocin and we're like, I feel good when I am with this person because we have bonded.
Ron: So then someone from the other troop and back then, the cultural sphere has shifted and our troop is a lot bigger now, but we're working with machinery, which then says the person from over there is bad or wrong.
Ron: They might try and steal our stuff because they are competition.
Ron: Yeah, it's a very basal thing.
Laura: It's funny how nowadays, though, your troop is very changeable because you can sort of hold multilayers of it because your troop is your family.
Laura: People get into neighbor wars, their lelandi needs trimming, et cetera, et cetera.
Laura: But also you've got this sense of your troop as being your town or your village versus the next village over, but then also your country.
Laura: It's interesting how malleable that concept is, depending on where the perceived invader is.
Ron: Yeah, absolutely.
Ron: And ultimately, though, none of that matters and everyone just needs to grow up.
Laura: Couldn't agree more, mate.
Ron: Yeah.
Laura: There's no easier laugh to get when you turn up somewhere to do a gig than just doing a little bit of research before you go on and taking the p*** out of the neighboring village and saying they're a certain way.
Laura: And people are like, oh, my God, they really are.
Laura: You know they are.
Laura: And you're just like, I do that joke everywhere.
Laura: I just changed the village or whatever.
Ron: Yeah.
Laura: In at number five, gorillas, maybe you're just feeling a little bit shy and like you just want someone to take care of you.
Laura: That's where the gorilla comes in.
Laura: Humanoid looking so less weird than some of my choices.
Laura: Very protective.
Laura: Also, you get a load of sister wives to hang out with.
Laura: You kind of got a mormon situation going on, and I ain't mad at that.
Ron: Gorillas is very much your ideal body type as well.
Laura: Yeah, got one, mate.
Laura: I did think that when I was making my list, I was like, basically I'm just making a list of the biggest animals I can think of.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: And that's kind of the science of love, Laura.
Laura: Oh, what was the attachment one?
Laura: That was oxytocin.
Ron: Oxytocin, yeah.
Ron: It's basically like MDMA.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Oh, I love it, Ron.
Laura: Now we know why we're in love.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: And we haven't been recording for that long, have we?
Laura: 38 minutes.
Ron: Cool.
Ron: So I did some research because I thought that might not be enough.
Ron: I did some research into the history of sort of scientific thought on love.
Laura: Oh, I love that, Ron.
Laura: But first in at number four, it's my favorite animal.
Laura: And yours, the orca.
Laura: Do you need that cheeky bad boy of the sea that's roving around in his little pack with the windows down?
Laura: It's the orca.
Laura: Maybe you want to have a sexy weekend away flipping yachts and banging.
Laura: The orca's got lovely, smooth skin, adaptable to anywhere you want to live in the sea, and comes in a pack tight family unit.
Laura: You'll never go hungry.
Laura: Cheeky, playful, lots of fun, good teeth.
Ron: Orcas are so, so fascinating.
Laura: I f****** love orcas.
Laura: I've watched so many documentaries about orcas, and I could still watch 9000 more.
Ron: I was listening to a podcast about orcas the other day, actually, it was about toothed whales.
Laura: Can you send me a link to that, please?
Ron: Yes, it was a podcast all about toothed whales, which includes common descent.
Ron: Yeah, but it includes like, sperm whales and orcas and dolphins and beaked whales and.
Ron: Yeah, they did a whole thing on orcas in it.
Ron: And there's a thought on orcas at the moment that they might be one of the first species to ever speciate.
Ron: On purpose.
Laura: Yeah, there's on purpose.
Laura: I didn't know.
Laura: I think they cover that slightly in blackfish.
Laura: I think it might be where they talk about.
Laura: Is it like seven separate species?
Laura: They can sort of roughly divide them into, from where they've moved around so much and they've specialized so quickly.
Ron: Well, that's the thing, is that they are all biologically the same, but it's almost like cultural differences between them mean that the groups won't mix.
Ron: So you have some that are like, I can't remember exactly what the different strategies are, but there's like some that hunt seals, and there's some that deep sea fish in the middle of the ocean and go for squid and stuff, and then there's others that hunt on the coasts and things like this.
Ron: And those groups are now, they're so culturally defined with each other that they just stick with themselves and then obviouslytosin.
Laura: Being released in them when they're around each other, probably.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Them being mammals, they've probably got very similar sort of pathways to us, but, yeah.
Ron: So if they keep on doing that and not mixing, eventually they will end up as different creatures.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: I'm just going to look it up because I'm wondering if it was orcas.
Laura: Ah, yeah, it was orcas.
Laura: I was looking at.
Laura: There was one documentary, I've googled something, right, to look this up, and it says, people also ask, what's going on with the orcas?
Laura: Just googling that, hey, google what's going on with the orcas.
Laura: Yeah, there was a thing in that about how there was this orca that had, I think, a spinal problem.
Laura: It had a deformity in its spine that meant it was basically not going to survive on its own, and its pod took care of it, and then they would swap care of that orca over with another pod to alleviate the stress and to make sure that that.
Laura: And it was like one of the first times they'd really seen that happen, I think, in Wales or.
Laura: It's not very common in the whole animal kingdom, is it, to just actively look after a member of the pod?
Laura: That couldn't help the pod, particularly, or sort of in a knowing way, but, yeah, they kept it alive and sort of looked after them.
Ron: Yeah, cetaceans are super cool.
Ron: Big fan.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Orcas are my top number one animals in the whole wide world.
Ron: Yeah, that's fair.
Ron: So, history of Love.
Ron: What did we think about love in the past?
Ron: Obviously, love has killed many people.
Ron: It's the thing that started the siege of Troy and led thousands of people to their death.
Ron: But what was the scientific thought behind all of the pain?
Laura: That it was women bewitching men to make them do terrible things.
Ron: Actually, they did have a bit more of a romantic view of it, to be honest, than that.
Ron: Now, I'm about to butcher a bunch of names of old greek lads, so bear with me.
Ron: But empidocles of acrogas, modern aggregate.
Laura: Anybody in the ancient greek world was called empidocles.
Ron: I think that's not too far off.
Laura: Empidocles.
Ron: No, Emped.
Ron: It's an e, though.
Laura: Empidicles.
Ron: Empidocles.
Laura: Empidocles.
Laura: Get your bum back here and finish the mead.
Ron: Empidocles of acrogass.
Ron: Modern Agrigento, wherever that is, was a prominent pre socratic philosopher.
Ron: He's the guy that said the world's made up of four elements, air, earth, fire and water.
Ron: The second part of that that I didn't know is that they combine and separate under the influence of two divine forces, strife and love.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: However, we don't have all of his writings.
Ron: We've only got, like, little bits that have been passed down, some of it through Diogenes, who wrote different biographies of other ancient philosophers.
Ron: He claimed that Empadocles died by leaping into a volcano to prove his own immortality.
Laura: I love that.
Laura: If it's true.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: That is dope.
Ron: You've got to presume it is a metaphor for something.
Laura: But if you're there any volcanoes round in ancient Greece?
Ron: Pompeii.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Vesuvius.
Ron: Vesuvius, yeah, loads.
Laura: All right, I take it back.
Laura: No, wait.
Laura: Weren't they in Italy?
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: But that's not far from Greece, is it?
Laura: It's a long way to go just to prove a point.
Laura: Surely there's ways to kill yourself nearer.
Ron: Yeah.
Laura: Why don't you jump in the sea?
Laura: No, it's gotta be a volcano.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: I think if you're the kind of flamboyant person that's going to jump in a volcano, I don't think a short boat trip to lovely Italy is going to really hold you.
Laura: What is everybody coming with you?
Laura: Are you just taking the Village with you?
Laura: Like we're going on a boat trip?
Laura: Well, even if he does die in the volcano, at least we've had our holiday.
Ron: I think he'd have acolytes, people that are just like, absolute bootlics.
Ron: Acolies.
Ron: Plato.
Ron: We all know Plato.
Laura: Yes.
Laura: It's when you are doing really well and then for a while you just sort of level out in one spot and it's very hard to get back up on the gradient again.
Ron: Very nice.
Ron: Thanks.
Ron: He wrote a few things on the topic of love.
Ron: Most famous one is, did he write.
Laura: Don'T hurt me no more, Laura.
Ron: I said we were only doing one.
Laura: Hataway break and then I snuck one in that you weren't expecting.
Ron: Yeah, but you could do that at all times.
Laura: Yeah, but I didn't.
Laura: I waited 45 minutes and then put it in.
Laura: In at number three.
Laura: Ron, it's penguins.
Laura: Emperor penguins.
Laura: About the same height as me.
Laura: I'd finally get a kiss that I don't have to crane my neck for.
Laura: Big family unit.
Laura: Nice and warm and snuggly in the middle.
Laura: So many of them there.
Laura: No one's going to notice if you're having a little smooch.
Laura: The dads do a lot of the early childcare, which is arguably the worst bit.
Laura: They live in a very inhospitable area, so if you're not that keen on chatting to other people, you don't have to think about it.
Laura: Downsides being the smell.
Ron: Also the beak and the cloacre.
Laura: Yeah.
Ron: I don't think I could f*** anything with a beak.
Laura: No beaks.
Laura: There were no other birds on my list.
Laura: I did consider a peacock, but I kind of thought they would be a little bit Tory and.
Ron: Oh, no.
Ron: The drag queens of the natural world.
Laura: That's not the vibe I get off them.
Ron: Really?
Laura: I get that more from, like, birds of paradise.
Ron: Well, yeah, but peacocks are just massive birds.
Laura: Swan about these fancy estates.
Ron: Yeah, but that's not their fault.
Ron: They're just from India.
Laura: Anywhere.
Laura: Yes, they could.
Laura: They can fly where they like.
Ron: They can't fly.
Laura: What, they have their wings clipped, all of them.
Ron: The ones that are in the fanciest states, they don't appear there.
Ron: It's not like you build a big house and it's like, oh, leave it for a few weeks.
Laura: All over the place.
Laura: No, you see the girl ones everywhere.
Ron: Where?
Laura: In the fields and stuff?
Ron: Well, they probably don't clip those wings because nobody wants to see them.
Laura: Yeah, women.
Laura: I also considered manatees but I don't like those whiskers.
Laura: I don't want those.
Laura: Dolphins are kind of like a beaked mammal.
Laura: Not interested.
Laura: But I did think they're quite rapey, aren't they?
Laura: Maybe we could play them at their own game.
Ron: No.
Laura: What?
Ron: Rape is never the answer to rape.
Laura: No.
Laura: That's why I didn't put them in the list.
Ron: Nervous?
Ron: Worrying.
Ron: That crossed your mind?
Laura: Well, because I was just thinking you.
Ron: Should never be in the military.
Laura: Any of these animals.
Laura: I don't want to.
Laura: I would never be in the military.
Laura: Be terrible.
Laura: And I want all of these animals to consent.
Laura: But then I thought, like, oh, consent is quite difficult to get off a leatherback turtle, isn't it?
Laura: So I thought, dolphins obviously have a shady idea of consent.
Laura: They would be one I could put in the list without worrying so much.
Ron: You've really been playing 3d checkers with yourself, making this list, haven't you?
Laura: Yeah, it's a difficult list to make because every now and again you remember what you're doing and you go, I don't want to have sex with any animal.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Weird thing to ask to do.
Ron: And read out on the podcast in it.
Laura: Two to go.
Laura: What do you think is going to be number one?
Ron: So, Plato, Laura wrote a few things on the topic of love.
Ron: The most famous one is called the symposium.
Ron: It's.
Ron: Oh, my laptop closes all the time.
Laura: You should stay on topic more and stop distracting us.
Ron: Symposium, which is a series of distinguished Athenians attending a banquet, and then they give a speech on the theme of love.
Ron: The most famous one, the speech by the comic playwright Aristophanes.
Laura: Aristophanes.
Ron: Aristophanes.
Laura: Aristophanese, leave your sister's pigtails alone.
Ron: Although we don't pronounce this stuff right.
Ron: You know that, right?
Laura: Yeah, we do.
Ron: I have a friend from Athens, and he really, really laughed the first time he heard me say Socrates.
Laura: How does he pronounce it?
Ron: Socrates.
Laura: Oh, yeah, that does sound.
Ron: And Aristophanes.
Ron: Or Aristophanes.
Ron: Socrates.
Ron: Aristophanes.
Laura: Aristophanus.
Ron: Yeah, that's probably.
Ron: It proposes that humans once had bodies made of what would now be two humans.
Ron: So with four arms and legs and two faces looking in opposite directions.
Ron: And then Zeus split these original humans as punishment for their hubris.
Ron: And then human love is just looking for your other person that would have made you one person before Zeus did that to you.
Laura: Well, this guy is mad and.
Ron: No, I mean, it's kind of a sweet idea, really undermined by the horrendous image of having two faces on both sides of the head and forearms and stuff.
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: It's also this idea that you want somebody that completes you.
Laura: Or is the other side of you.
Laura: What I'm looking for in a partner is something that is nothing to do with me.
Laura: I have very carefully chosen a partner who is not like me, who has no shared qualities with me, really, whatsoever.
Laura: Like, he is everything I'm aiming for, not who I am.
Laura: I find it weird when people are like, it's my soulmate.
Laura: We're like the same.
Laura: We're two sides of the same coin.
Laura: No, I want a full different world.
Ron: It's starting to explain why you've never had a good s***.
Laura: I have had a good s***.
Laura: Did you not hear about the leatherback turtle?
Laura: Why would you want a s*** yourself?
Ron: Because you know how to push all the buttons.
Laura: Yeah, but you can do that on your own when you.
Laura: Nah, I don't want to talk about sexy things.
Laura: No, that's fine, but I have to, because in at number two, Ron, it's your friend and mine.
Laura: I saw loads of them at the beginning of the year.
Laura: It's the seal.
Laura: It's the beautiful, common grey seal.
Laura: Oh, lovely, lovely bit of cuddle.
Laura: Like having sex with a draught excluder that smells like my dog.
Laura: Wonderful.
Laura: Not too whiskery, a little bit furry, but sort of smoothish.
Laura: Flippers that can sort of hold you back a little bit, but without too many limbs so you can get away when you want to.
Ron: Oh, they do have a nice fur pattern, don't they?
Laura: Yeah.
Laura: Very beautiful eyes.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: They look kind of like you could.
Laura: Sit and eat sashimi together.
Ron: Oh, you could.
Ron: Who do they look like?
Laura: I always love that bit in the boggart, too, with the seals.
Ron: They've got that kind of like old englishman vibe to them.
Ron: Hugh Bonneville, bold and round.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Like a sleek bonneville cutting through the waves.
Ron: There's a picture of two of them kissing here.
Ron: I like this one.
Laura: Ron likes.
Laura: Who's in at number two?
Ron: The research that I did for this history of love thing, Laura, was done all of one article that was really poorly written, to the point that at one point it just straight up repeated a paragraph.
Laura: I love it.
Ron: They'd clearly deleted another paragraph because the next paragraph then starts, according to St Jerome, Lucretius went mad after drinking a love potion.
Ron: St Jerome and Lucretius had not been mentioned up until this point.
Ron: And I have no idea who these people are.
Ron: I did not have time to look into it.
Ron: Apparently, Lucretius wrote a poem about love.
Ron: The reason why I have mentioned it is because he described love as a festering wound in need of a cure.
Ron: So he gets it.
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Stoic philosopher Seneca, you're going to get.
Laura: So many love letters out of this episode from all of the people that love you.
Ron: I don't think so.
Laura: I think will, if you love Ron, send us an email telling us you love him.
Ron: You don't have to do that.
Laura: You do print them all out and stick them on his bedroom ceiling so that he falls asleep knowing he's loved.
Laura: The Stoic Ron, I'm seeing you in one week and I'm going to give you your jumper and your hat.
Ron: Oh, I'm really looking forward to that jumper and that hat, but it's warmer than it was when I commissioned the hat, so I'm looking forward to that hat next year, know?
Ron: Yeah.
Ron: Or if we have another cold snap, because f*** knows what's going on.
Laura: There's meant to be another cold snap coming, I think.
Ron: Well, fingers crossed, so I can wear my hat.
Ron: Stoic philosopher Seneca discusses many kinds of love in his work.
Ron: Laura.
Ron: He love of family, love of country, love of oneself.
Ron: But he does talk a lot about the difference between friendship and love and stuff.
Ron: He says, love is friendship gone mad.
Laura: Lust is friendship gone mad.
Laura: But love is friendship.
Ron: I don't think lust is friendship.
Ron: You can have sex with someone you don't like very much.
Laura: Yeah, I guess so.
Ron: I almost exclusively do.
Laura: I think those are the times I've hated myself the most, is when I've been in a relationship with somebody that I knew I didn't like, but the lust kept me there.
Laura: I think love is.
Ron: That's your problem.
Ron: Don't get into the relationship.
Laura: Yeah, that was always my problem.
Laura: Love isn't madness.
Laura: Love is sanity.
Ron: Perfect segue into the number one spot.
Laura: It's a big husky wolf.
Ron: I should have seen that coming.
Laura: Number one spot.
Ron: A sexy husky wolf.
Laura: Think of a husky.
Laura: Sexy wolf, maybe.
Ron: Stop saying husky.
Ron: That's another type of dog.
Laura: Yeah, but they look like wolves.
Laura: Husky wolves.
Laura: I'm just saying.
Laura: I'm not talking about your mealy little s*** wolf.
Laura: I'm talking about a big, arctic, fancy pants wolf.
Laura: A provider, a caretaker, a family creature.
Laura: Adaptable, voracious, got stamina, fit, beautiful, nice eyes.
Laura: Reminds me of Mackie.
Ron: I'm looking at a graphic here with the different types of wolf.
Ron: Laura, how many do you think you.
Laura: Could name a Timberwolf, Grey Wolf, lone wolf?
Ron: I know some of these ones that you've said to be wolves and they're not on there, so this isn't a game we should blame.
Laura: How do you feel about my top ten list, Ron?
Ron: It started out really unhinged and then it did ramp up in fuckability on.
Laura: There that you're not interested in.
Laura: And I just feel like you're not thinking about the potential.
Ron: It's disgusting that you want to have sex with a meaty beak box because if you think about it, a leatherback turtle is just a leathery barrel.
Laura: Okay, what's in ten for you, then?
Ron: I don't know.
Ron: I don't want to f*** any animals.
Laura: Neither do I, Ron, but if I were.
Ron: Oh, but you really wanted to make a list.
Laura: You told me to.
Ron: I did not ask for this.
Ron: I said we should both do a segment.
Ron: That's one of the fun bits of.
Ron: That's one of the fun bits of the specials.
Ron: And you said, oh, I know, great.
Ron: And you rolled up your sleeves and you're like, I've got all these fuckable animals.
Laura: Yeah, I don't regret it.
Ron: No, it was good stuff.
Ron: So happy Valentine's Day, everybody.
Laura: Hope you're feeling in the mood now.
Ron: We'll see some of you at the weekend in a couple of days for.
Laura: Literally a couple, judging by the tickets.
Ron: Yeah.
Laura: Take you both out for dinner afterwards.
Ron: We won't.
Laura: No, we're very awkward.
Ron: Yes.
Ron: We have to keep the barrier up.
Laura: Yep.
Laura: But, yeah, get your tea towel pictures in.
Laura: I'm really enjoying seeing them come in.
Laura: That's been a lot of fun.
Laura: Join the Patreon.
Laura: Come to Leicester and we love you.
Laura: Happy Valentine's Day.
Ron: It love.
Ron: Dismissed.
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