Plumble

 Plumble

This is the second episode of Lex Education, a comedy science podcast

Laura: Foreign. Hello and welcome to another episode of Lex Education. It's the comedy science podcast where comedian me, Laura Lex, tries to learn newly a level science from her nerdy non comedian younger brother, Rob.

Ron: Hi. Hi, Ron.

Laura: I'm a touch distracted because I've got Mackie up here in the roof office and um, she is wandering dangerously close to the hole back down to the second floor, and I'm really worried she's just going to try and jump.

Ron: Why have you got Mackie up there and why aren't you worried when your child's up there? Because I've seen you now not give a shit about that.

Laura: Because my child is much smarter than Mackie. Mackie's instinct for survival is low.

Ron: Non existent. I'd say sometimes her, uh, purely just her cells give up.

Laura: Yeah. So child of the podcast is a smart survivor. Child of the podcast is a. Is a mitochondria you. Silence.

Ron: Why would a mitochondria be a survivor? Sorry, I was trying to wrap my head around that.

Laura: Uh, because they were their own thing and then they found an easier way to survive by joining in another place.

Ron: Sure. Okay. Yeah.

Laura: See, I'm super smart.

Ron: Very smart. I wouldn't say surviving is the main thing about mitochondria, but.

Laura: Okay, um, I think you should.

Ron: Why have you raised your hand in the Google Meet?

Laura: Um, because I wanted you to mute yourself, but I thought it'd be more professional to just wave at you there than say, please, mute yourself there.

Ron: Oh, I've done it now.

Laura: Thanks, Ron. You were suddenly so loud. I've got the afternoon sleepies. Ron?

Ron: Yeah, you said.

Laura: Oh, um, Ron.

Ron: Yeah?

Laura: One of our patrons plays Plate Up.

Ron: Yeah, I saw that in the Discord.

Laura: Ugh.

Ron: Ron, you still playing? You still plating?

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Have you double franchised stuff yet?

Laura: Yeah, I've done this franchise loads of things.

Ron: Triple.

Laura: Yeah, might have tripled.

Ron: The.

Laura: The goal now is to get to day 15 of overtime. That's what we've never done.

Ron: Oh, I assumed that had been done by now.

Laura: No, man, no, no, no. Tom and I have had some pretty good pie restaurants lately. Meg and I have been doing some cool shit.

Ron: Are you still on your theory that complexity is fine, but keep the table numbers low?

Laura: No, the. Well, it's different. It's different when you play. It's different when you play one and two player. When you play alone, you need to keep it simple. You need to be making one thing and you need to just deliver it. When you play as a team, you. You have to balance how much you're modifying the kitchen and the restaurant. You can't have the kitchen be a well oiled machine, but somebody running around like a dickhead in the restaurant. You have to keep them evolving in a symbiotic man.

Ron: I see, I see. That makes sense.

Laura: Yeah. We've had a few issues where the kitchen has been a work of art and then we've died because of dirty plates, you know?

Ron: Yeah. Tom messaged me asking for the name of the Factory game that I play because he. He feels like he's hit his peak with the kitchen sometimes.

Laura: What's the Factory game that you play?

Ron: Factorio.

Laura: Oh, yeah, you've mentioned that before.

Ron: Yeah, I told you about it and you were like, why? I want to do the cooking.

Laura: I do like to cook. M. Maybe I'll play that one day.

Ron: I don't think you'd like it.

Laura: Oh, all right then.

We're doing chemistry today and this episode went pretty well

Well, listen, we're doing chemistry today. First chemistry.

Ron: First chemistry.

Laura: Here's what I'm wondering. One, because this episode went pretty well. Um, she's just staring at the gap. I could make it.

Ron: Ah, she doesn't look like she's about to jump, though, I think, don't get me wrong, I. I don't think she's about to jump. I do think she's contemplating death, but.

Laura: Oh, she was sleeping on my desk earlier. It was so cute. She's so cute on the table. Um, uh, I'm wondering, Ron, if we're gonna have the same thing that we had with, um, with gcse, where all the. This stuff in the early episodes goes in really well and then

00:05:00

Laura: anything after the first five episodes just dies. A horrid death.

Ron: What's fructose?

Laura: It's a sugar, uh, monomer.

Ron: What type of sugar?

Laura: Monomer. It's glucose and, um, sucrose.

Ron: No, it's a monomer. No worries about that then.

Laura: Anyway, that's not chemistry. Ron is muddying the waters. Go and learn about ion drift. Coming soon to a theatre near you. Recording chemistry.

Ron: Chemistry indeed.

Laura: I've got one really sore nipple. I don't like it.

Ron: I would die happily never speaking about the plum pudding model

Something else zip earlier.

Ron: No, not this conversation.

Laura: It's Matthew Grant's 40th birthday today.

Ron: Fuck. What a 40 year old boy.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Crazy times. I saw that on the Brighton Mates. Uh, group chat and I messaged Tom to find out what cameos he purchased for him and he told me that and then just sent another message that said, you are recording right now.

Laura: You're not being a professional podcaster.

Ron: Oh, no, I did that in between, actually. He just happened to reply While we were.

Laura: I see.

Ron: Yes.

Laura: Actually, he's downstairs playing find my butt with our kid.

Ron: Fun.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Um, right, you ready for first chemistry A level, Laura?

Laura: I am, Ron.

Ron: Wonderful. Right, I've lost one page of notes. Bare bloody with.

Laura: Oh, I'll bear.

Ron: Okay, Laura, we're starting out in a very similar, um, place to where we started at GCSE.

Laura: Electrons. Plum pudding.

Ron: Yes, indeed.

Laura: Gold foil.

Ron: Rutherford physical chemistry. And that's funny that you say all this, Laura, because 3.1.1.1. Fundamental particles. The first sentence on the syllabus there is. Appreciate that knowledge and understanding of atomic structure has evolved over time.

Laura: Yes, and I do. Mendeleev.

Ron: Here's a warning to all listeners. We will not be going through the plum pudding bottle again. I would die happily never speaking about the plum pudding model.

Laura: Next time you come and stay at my house, we're gonna have plum pudding.

Ron: It sounds rank, doesn't it?

Laura: Is it just. It can't just be plums in some dough, though.

Ron: I'm sure that's what it is.

Laura: Surely it's like an apple crumble or something, isn't it? Or like a. Do you chop the plums up?

Ron: I'm so close to quitting this podcast.

Laura: Why?

Ron: Because of course it's not like a fucking crumble. Do you not understand the point of it as a metaphor for the. What they thought an atom was like?

Laura: Yeah, PI. What? What's the matter? No, but what I mean, of course.

Ron: It'S not like a crumble. The whole point is that it's positively charged plums in a negatively charged pudding.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, uh, I'm sure.

Ron: So where's the crumble?

Laura: That's the electrons around the outside.

Ron: They didn't know about electrons. It did. Maybe it could have involved.

Laura: What's the scrunchie bit?

Ron: No, maybe it could have evolved from plum pudding to apple crumble model.

Laura: Plumble. That's what you'd call plum crumble. Plumble.

Ron: Don't distract me M with savvy word.

Laura: Here's. Here's the thing though, Ron. Here's what I'm debating. Cuz you. You can't just put whole plums into some cake dough. So it. It must be chopped up bits of plum.

Ron: Plum pudding.

Despite the name plum pudding, the pudding contains no actual plums

Laura: Pudding recipe, not an atom.

Ron: Christmas plum pudding. It looks exactly like a Christmas pudding. It's just plums in pudding.

Laura: The AI overview one says a plum pudding is not an atom because it is a dessert, not a scientific concept. Plum pudding.

Ron: Yeah, it's like.

Laura: It's like a Christmas pudding. Yeah. So it is chopped up then, but it's not crumble. No, but it's also just not like whole plums sitting in a thing. I reckon we could make that nice, Ron.

Ron: No, I don't like Christmas pudding.

Laura: Easy self sourcing plum pudding. But it's plums. There's some nicer looking ones.

Ron: The Beadle

00:10:00

Ron: commented 13 years ago. What? No plums in a plum pudding? Sounds like an Xmas pudding to me. Julitsu, which if her name's Julie, that's a pretty good online handle she's got there. Um, quotes. Despite the name plum pudding, the pudding contains no actual plums due to the pre Victorian use of the word plums as a term for raisins. So this whole pudding.

Laura: So it's a raisin pudding.

Ron: This whole time we've been talking about plum puddings, there's not fucking plum in sight.

Laura: Wow. One of the reviews on BBC Good Food plum pudding recipe says, I ate this and woke up the next day with no arms. I have to type with my toes now. What does that mean?

Ron: Oh yeah, that was a year ago. I will um, I will say, Laura, that to turn the tables back on you, that means that they're not chopped up because you don't chop a raisin before you put it into the pudding.

Laura: Another review here says surely this would be a genuine plum pudding if prunes were included. No plums.

Ron: Prunes are plums.

Laura: Are they?

Ron: A prune is to a plum what a raisin is to a grape.

Laura: Wow.

Ron: I didn't want to talk about.

Laura: Okay, no more pluming. No more plums. No more plums.

Ron: Although we did learn, didn't we?

Laura: Plum pudding is one of the few things that has gone in. I think we should celebrate it at every chance we get. Are you just reading about plums now?

Ron: No, I'm just reading all of these comments on the BBC Good Food website.

Laura: So if Max is coming over tonight, does that mean you're not playing plates tonight?

Ron: I never said I was. Max and I are watching the last Lord of the Rings film because we've been doing a re. Watch.

Laura: That doesn't sound fun.

Okay, so now we've covered extensively what we're not covering

Okay, okay, so now we've covered extensively what we're not covering. Ah, stop reading about plum puddings.

Ron: This is who's commenting on here.

Laura: Well, who's reading it out on a podcast for seven minutes?

Ron: Haven't we done this before? No, I don't think there was another rest. No, there was another food we were talking about where I read out comments.

Laura: From one of it wasn't plump pudding.

Ron: No, it wasn't plum pudding. It was something else. What was it?

Laura: I don't know. But should we do this? Because we're straying dangerously into nine month thin territory and it's lesson two.

Ron: Okay. Right, so we'll carry on then. Um, Laura? Yeah, we're just gonna quick fire because this is all refresher. Okay, good.

Laura: It gives me a chance to actually note this stuff down.

Ron: Yeah.

Describe the structure of an atom in three sentences or less

Um, we're gonna run through the relative mass and charge of a couple of things. Well, I guess, um, what are the fundamental particles in an atom?

Laura: Neutron, Proton, electron.

Ron: Bam, bam, bam. Write those three things down.

Laura: Neutron.

Ron: Probably give them each their own line.

Laura: Protons, electrons.

Ron: Nice. Okay, now I need the relative mass and charge of each of them.

Laura: 1, 1, 0 is the relative mass. Neutron, proton. Electron. Yep, yeah. 1, 1, 0.

Ron: Yep, yep, yep.

Laura: Uh, charge.

Ron: I wish you'd done it by particle, not all three. Taking one of the answers at a time. It's quite incomprehensible.

Laura: Neutron has no charge. What do we call that? A zero?

Ron: Na, we do call that a zero.

Laura: We call that a zero. Proton is plus one.

Ron: You've got reverted to the middle ages when they didn't know what zero was.

Laura: Proton is plus one.

Ron: Yes.

Laura: Electron is negative one.

Ron: Yes. Um, okay. And now in three sentences or less, describe the structure of an atom.

Laura: The protons and the neutrons are in the nucleus together. The electrons are arranged around the outside of that with space between them and the nucleus in a shell formation or in rings.

Ron: We'll give that. Yeah, that's good. Well done. All right. 3.1.1.1.

00:15:00

Ron: Ticked away. Have you got all of that written down? Because that's. That's banks now.

Laura: Yes.

Ron: And here's an expectation that I would like to set for a level we build on knowledge.

Laura: Did you hear the quaver in my voice as to whether there was a nucleus because it was an atom, not a cell?

Ron: Yes.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Because what we're gonna learn coming up, Laura, is things like how the shells are actually arranged. So I need to be able to confidently throw to you and you know that they're in shells in the first place.

Laura: I don't think I've ever not known about the shells. I feel like electron behaviour is one thing I've had down.

Ron: Yeah. Cause it was in the first six episodes.

Laura: Yeah, it was in the first episode, Ron, the first chemistry. And, um, that stuff went in.

Ron: Yeah. Okay. Right, we're gonna do 3.1.1.2.

Laura: Oh, we've already smashed a one 1.1.1.

Ron: Yeah. That is literally called fundamental particles. That's banked. That's in the brain bank. Yes, in the brain bank. And we'll be making regular withdrawals.

Laura: Oh, I was gonna say I've put it in a five year ISO where I don't touch it for five years.

Ron: No, you need to be. We don't want to just be sitting on that cash. We've got to keep it liquid, we've.

Laura: Got to keep investing it. Okay, okay. I've put it in a medium risk stock fund.

Ron: You don't understand.

Laura: There is every chance fluid it's gonna go.

Ron: No, we're day trading, Laura. We're putting a little bit on this. We're reaping rewards. We're putting a little bit on this. We're reaping rewards. We're buying low and selling high. Huh?

Laura: There's always the chance we'll lose it all.

Ron: We surely will.

Let's both get up a periodic table on the wall

All right. 3.1.1.2. Mass number and isotopes.

Laura: Yes.

Ron: Okay. Right, so what we're gonna do is let's both get up a periodic table.

Laura: Yeah. I miss my notebook having a periodic table.

Ron: Yeah. We need to get you a poster. I think that would be nice, wouldn't it?

Laura: Yeah. I went and got some paint samples for my office today.

Ron: Ooh, lovely. Lets paint a periodic table on the wall.

Laura: I'm gonna paint it purple and green.

Ron: So that could be group seven and group one elements. What should we do the other ones in? Um, purple and green.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Purple and green.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: So like a 90s kind of monster vibe.

Laura: Yeah. Here's my thinking, Ron. It's a room that guests don't really come in. I don't have to live in it all day. It's not like it's a living room. So I can have some wacky fun up here.

Ron: Now, I've never wanted to stand in the face of wacky fun. Purple and green sounds interesting. Send me the colours because, um, like.

Laura: A pale green and then a deep purple. So I'm thinking where the brick bits are dark purple and um, the rest of the walls are sort of soft green like an apple and BlackBerry.

Ron: Sounds spooky, but you see this periodic.

Laura: Table when you Google periodic table. Oh, there's purple and green right next to each other. Looks lovely.

Ron: Yeah. Because they're contrasting colours. So they're good next to each other. Yeah, yeah. Are you just looking at the Google one?

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Good, me too. So we're on the same page. Lovely.

Laura: Whoa. Literally.

Ron: So what we're gonna want to do is can you find zinc for me?

Laura: Um, it's a metal. I, um, wonder what kind of metal. Oh, it'll have the word zinc on it.

Ron: Yeah, it's zn. Top row of the purples, far on the right.

Laura: Oh, there it is. I found it.

Ron: Um, okay, so hover over your zinc there. Can you please identify the mass number and the atomic number of zinc?

Laura: The mass number is 65.380. The atomic number is 30.

Ron: Wonderful. Okay, what does the atomic number tell us?

Laura: How many electrons it has?

Ron: Not quite.

Laura: How many protons it has.

Ron: Exactly. Yes. Why are those not the same?

Laura: Because it could be an isotope.

Ron: Nope.

Laura: Ion.

Ron: It could be an ion. Yes. So are you writing all this down?

Laura: I am, Ron. Drawing it.

Ron: Okay, cool, cool, cool. Why is the mass number not a whole number?

Laura: Because it's an average of all the different isotopes.

Ron: Correct. And

00:20:00

Ron: what's an isotope?

Laura: An isotope is a. Ah. It's an atom that has a different number of neutrons.

Ron: Yes. Good stuff. Really, really good. The atomic number 30 is the number of protons that defines the element. So any atom with a nucleus, um, atom or ion or isotope with a nucleus that has 30 protons in it is always zinc. The number of neutrons can vary. The number of electrons if it's been ionised can also vary.

Laura: Yes, but the protons define the element.

Ron: The protons define the element. Exactly.

Moles is a really important and quite simple thing

Okay, Laura, so if we.

Laura: How positive you are defines who you are.

Ron: That's a great way to think about it.

Laura: I was thinking today in the car and uh, mainly I give Tom credit for this, but I'm the sibling that's doing alrightest at the moment. Did we ever see this day coming where I would have my shit together more than the others? No, Tom's incredible. How has he done this?

Ron: Um, so, Laura, if we had some zinc 66, how many protons and how many neutrons would be in there?

Laura: What do you mean if we had some zinc? 66.

Ron: So if we had some zinc.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: And its atomic weight was 66.

Laura: Atomic weight was 66? Yeah.

Ron: You know how if I say carbon 12, that means carbon with a weight of 12, right?

Laura: A mole.

Ron: Don't just say things. You were doing super well.

Laura: I, uh, thought carbon 12 was a mole.

Ron: 12 grammes of carbon 12 is how many atoms is in a mole.

Laura: I ate moles. Should have said mole. There would be 36 neutrons and 30 protons.

Ron: Great. What if we had some zinc? 67?

Laura: 37 neutrons. Always 30 neutrons.

Ron: Yeah. Buckle up for some serious moles. By the way.

Laura: No, this is.

Ron: This is going to be a moles M. Heavy force. Moles is a really important and quite simple thing.

Laura: I think we need to do a same rumour and. And like, have some visual aids.

Ron: I don't know how much clearer I can make it than. It's just a number. The number of atoms that you.

Laura: Don't do it now. Don't do it now. We're having a nice time now. Don't do it now.

Ron: To get one.

Laura: Don't do it now.

Ron: It's just.

Laura: Don't do it now.

Ron: You're making it such a bigger thing than it needs to be.

Laura: Can I have moles on a poster?

Ron: You could have the number. Yes, because it's just a number.

Laura: Protons define the element. Remember when we talked about that and we were all happy?

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Nice. Okay.

Laura: Um.

Ron: Cool beans. You might be wondering, Laura.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: What are you doing?

Laura: Putting, uh, Edit Valentine's onto my to do list.

Ron: Okay. Um. You might be wondering how we might measure some isotopes m. How we could ever possibly know how many neutrons is, um, is in an atom.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: We do this via a process called mass spectrometry.

Laura: Oh, uh. What a beautiful name.

Ron: Mm.

Laura: You can't escape my mass by spectronity. The way that I mass my spectronomous.

Ron: Spectrometry.

Laura: Spectrometry. Now this sounds like something made up for a sunglasses campaign. Lydia knows all about spectrometry. And then Lydia gets the guy and Mary Angelo doesn't.

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: Spectrometry.

Ron: Very naughty.

Laura: Yeah, I was going for like a. An X Factor guy.

Ron: I like it a bit. Ian Sterling. Um, I was, uh, continuing my re. Listen of Lex education recently, and for a long time we talked about John Tickle and about how we were going to get him on the podcast.

Laura: Never did. Maybe we'll put him down as a potential year

00:25:00

Laura: three guest for our. One guest a year.

Ron: Yeah, I mean, he's surely. He's not doing anything.

Laura: John Tickle, where are you?

You've been putting some effort into your meals lately

Ron: Okay, Laura, so mass spectrometry. We need to understand how this works.

Laura: Mass spectrometry. Speck is a type of Dutch ham.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Did I tell you about the massive sandwich I had on Saturday?

Ron: No.

Laura: Uh, opposite the comedy club I was at on Saturday in Manchester, on Oldham street, there's a sandwich shop called Bada Bings, all like, based off the strip shop in Sopranos. And, um, I went in there to get a sandwich. They only had one.

Ron: Vegetarian gabagool.

Laura: Yeah, they had gabagool on the menu run. Um, I think it's meat though, so I didn't order it. They only had one vegetarian option and it was aubergine parm. And I was like, great, I'll have that. Ron, it was the biggest sandwich I've ever eaten. It was delicious.

Ron: Did you pick?

Laura: No, I ate it all fast. It was hot. I burned the roof of my mouth. It was so salty. I had a headache for the rest of the day. I loved it.

Ron: Yeah, that does sound delish.

Laura: It was great. Aubergine parm is like breadcrumbed aubergine. And then had salsa verde and tomato sauce and two types of cheese in there. Ugh. Uh, it was delicious.

Ron: Mmm. The other day, uh, I made meatballs. Uh, meatballs and a delicious sauce I make sometimes. And then the next day I was like late and I didn't have time to, uh, cook the pastex. I think we might have even been playing, uh, playing plates. But, um, I just ate. Oh, no, I was going to the pub. I was going to the pub. Um, I just, I couldn't be bothered to cook any more pasta. So I just had the meatballs just on some. Two thick slices of sourdough. Like an open faced meatball sub. Oh, it's amazing.

Laura: You've been really good at cooking lately.

Ron: I got really good at cooking in the last six months.

Laura: No, I know, but this time you've had off work, you've been putting some effort into your meals.

Ron: Mmm. M. Yeah. So, ah, me and Max were watching Lord of the Rings later, um, and I was like, I'm gonna cook. I know exactly what to make us.

Laura: Are you gonna make lambas bread?

Ron: No, no, no, no, no. So we're watching the third one, which, um, I imagine it's been maybe like 20 years since you saw Lord of the Rings, if you've ever watched it.

Laura: I've definitely watched it. I used to be quite into it when I was at college.

Ron: Then, yes.

Laura: To have a life size cardboard cut out of Aragorn.

Ron: Oh, yeah, of course. So you, um. Yeah. So it's been like 20 years then. Um, uh, there's a scene in the third one that's very famous, um, where Denethor, the father of Boromir and Faramir, just absolutely eviscerates a tomato.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that feast. And there's like a chicken bone as well, isn't there? And then that tomato like dribbles down his chin.

Ron: Yeah. So I'm making Max, um, chicken. And then I'm just, I'm gonna do something nice with tomatoes I might roast. Um, Them balsamic? Yeah, yeah.

Laura: Uh, yeah, roast them with, like, salt and balsamic.

Ron: Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna do that. And then I will obviously garnish it with just a raw cherry tomato so that we can pop it nice. And then I'm making younger, uh, sister of the podcast Meg's garlic Tomato, uh, garlic potatoes to go on this side.

Laura: Oh, delish.

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: Max strikes me as strong vegan energy. Is he not vegan?

Ron: No.

Laura: Oh, um, I guess he's German, isn't he?

Ron: A bit, yeah. Anyway, Laura, mass spectrometry. We need to understand how this works.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Okay. So if you refer to the WhatsApp web.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: I sent you.

Laura: You sent me the word protein over and over again.

Ron: I was trying to type it into my spreadsheet and then it wasn't appearing, and then it just kept on sending it to you.

Max describes a mass spectrometer for the listener

Laura: Ooh, we've got a penis pump.

Ron: Do you want to describe it for the listener?

Laura: Okay, so I'll describe it from left to right. On the left, we've got kind of.

Ron: The nib of a fountain pen.

Laura: Oh, I was going to say like a vaginal slit, but yes, like the nib of a fountain pen.

Ron: See, to me, that looks like the nib of a fountain pen. Or potentially a computer mouse.

Laura: A computer mouse? I was just going to say a computer mouse. Like a.

Ron: Not a fanny.

Laura: Well, a bit like a very shaved fanny.

Ron: If you Max in Boggle yesterday got vagina and vaginas.

Laura: Nice. Shame you can't get them in real life. Ew. And underneath the computer mouse, slash vagina, it says vaporised sample. That's a hot vagina. Your piss has gone to steam. Um, then that's going into, like, a bigger, uh, chamber via a funnel that's got like a coiled wire around a

00:30:00

Laura: bar of lead or something. Um, there's an upside down T hanging off the top, like a little parakeet perch. It's all yellow in that box. If you carry along the tube, then there's like a green casing around the tube for a while and that says acceleration with, like, some dams built into it. Then the tube goes down, it bends around a corner. We've got a little bend in the pipe. It says deflection and there's like a radar over it. There's a little outy pee pipe that says vacuum. That's going off to the right. And then it comes down into a little water box with, ah, a little pressure pump. And that says detection.

Ron: Absolutely. Um, this is a mass spectrometer, Max.

Laura: Spectrometer Laura, Shall I draw this in my book?

Ron: Yeah. A quick sketch of it, don't worry, with all the details, but you need the. The key things that we need to understand here. Those four stages. Ionisation, acceleration, deflection and detection. Those are the key bits.

Laura: Mine looks way more vaginal.

Ron: Good. The Georgia O'Keeffe. My spectrometer. It's a hard word to say, isn't it?

Laura: Yeah. Spectrometra.

Ron: Spectrometer. Spectrometer is easier. Spectrometer.

Laura: Yeah, that's because that doesn't have the double tr. The double TR throws you off, I think.

Ron: Spectrometry. Trometry. Trometry. Trometry.

Laura: I'm not spelled. Ionisation. Right. How about that? Is your washing machine on or is that mine?

Ron: That's mine.

Laura: Washing some clothes, are you, big boy? What a grown up lad.

Ron: Is that better or should I pause it?

Laura: Oh, it's fine. You could barely hear it.

Ron: Oh, uh, grand. I'll close the door now.

Laura: Okay, I've drawn.

Ron: But I do want to say, Laura, I think the standards for our podcast shouldn't be Barely can hear the washing machine.

Laura: Well, these fucks need to get on the fucking Patreon then. If they don't want us recording at home where our washing machines are. Uh, we can either be stinking or it can be quiet. Or you can pay us money and then it can be paid. But at the moment it can't be.

Ron: They're gonna. It's a podcast, Laura. They're gonna choose stinkin'we've.

Laura: Got two sisters to buy gifts for. And cheer up.

Ron: Yeah, okay.

Mass spectrometry is basically finding out the mass of a sample

Right, so step one, we get the sample of whatever it is that we want to test.

Laura: What are we testing for?

Ron: What do you think?

Laura: Ionisation?

Ron: No, M. Mass spectrometry.

Laura: Oh. Are we finding out how heavy things are? We're finding out how many neutrons there are.

Ron: Finding out the mass. Yeah, mass spectrometry. Maybe underline the word mass.

Laura: Huh?

Ron: Huh?

Laura: Yeah. Okay, cool. Right. The mass. We're finding out the mass. We're not doing spectrometry on mass.

Ron: Both.

Laura: No, but like, we're not doing loads of spectrometry. No, no, that's the mistake I was making.

Ron: Right, I see. Okay, so we get our sample and we vaporise it. That's the first thing. So what we. So what we need is we need the bits that we want to use put through the spectrometer in a gas form so that the atoms. Atoms or molecules, we can do both in mass spectrometry are bouncing around on Their own in the gas. Right. We can't put a solid through this. Wouldn't work.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Okay, then step one. Ionisation. We have to turn. What? We, um, have to turn atoms into ions so that they have a charge. Okay.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: This is important because it's the charge that we then use to accelerate and deflect the, um, the. The ion.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: We do the ionisation through a process called electrospray ionisation. And essentially those two bits that you can see in the, um, in the graphic that I sent you, the, the upside down T and the coil, we apply our voltage across there and it's going to start shooting electrons across that gap. Because we've got a high voltage, those electrons are going to bash into our vaporised sample and knock out other electrons from their shells, giving the ion a charge.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: So the atoms are effectively going to lose electrons. Okay.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: What is that going to do to their relative charge?

Laura: Give them a positive charge.

Ron: Absolutely correct.

00:35:00

Ron: Well done. Okay, so now we've taken our sample and we've ionised it. Okay.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: The sample can be made of different, um, things or it can be just one thing. And we're trying to work out the mass of that one thing. Okay. Then because our particles are then charged, we can then accelerate them with an electric field. Basically use the power of magnets to really speed up these ions, which is then what we want to do. So effectively what you do is in the acceleration bit here, we have those two plates, right?

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: The one towards the end of the mass spectrometer. Uh, the direction that we want things to go that we're gonna highly negative charge that.

Laura: Yeah. So that they'll all rush towards it.

Ron: Exactly. And then there's a hole in the middle. So some of them just shoot straight through.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: It's probably more complicated than that, but that's kind of how you need to understand it.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Okay.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: Then we go through the deflection stage.

Laura: Um, that's the bit your therapist really wants you to get. Stop doing so that you can actually focus on the issues. Yeah.

Ron: Um, this is also called ion drift. Oh, sorry. I should say about the acceleration stage, what's really important here is the same acceleration has been applied to all of the different particles going through it. That doesn't mean they're all going at the same speed because they all. They might all have different masses.

Laura: Yep.

Ron: But the same acceleration force has been applied to them, which then gives them the same, uh, the same kinetic energy.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Understand?

Laura: Um, sure.

Ron: Talk back to me. What we've got so far, because this will be in the quiz.

Different isotopes need different magnetic fields to bend different ions round a corner

Laura: Okay, so we've got a gas, we've got a vaporised version of whatever it is we're testing. We stick it in the ionisation chamber, we, we fire waves at it.

Ron: And that were they waves?

Laura: Can't remember. What were they?

Ron: Electrons.

Laura: I, uh, thought they were losing electrons.

Ron: We are. We're using electrons to bash other electrons out of orbit.

Laura: Okay, so we're electron electro spraying.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Bashing electrons off. Then they've got a positive charge. Then we're negatively charging the dam at the end of the acceleration tunnel to attract these atoms towards it.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Now they've all been given the same amount of kinetic energy by the acceleration applied, but they're going at different speeds because they're different isotopes, different masses.

Ron: Exactly, yeah. Okay, then we go into the deflection bit which um, is essentially a corner that has an electron, an ah, electromagnet around it.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: So we then use the charge of the ion, um, and the magnetic field made by the electromagnet and we bend the ions around the corner.

Laura: We what?

Ron: Now we use the magnetic field created by the electromagnet, uh, to bend the ions round the corner.

Laura: Right.

Ron: Because here's the really clever bit. Because they have different masses, you're going to need different strength magnetic fields to bend different isotopes around the corner. So if let's stay in a really simplistic, um, world. We've got a sample and it's got chemical A in it and chemical A is really light. It's got a relative mass of, let's say 10. And chemical B is really heavy. It's got a relative mass of 100. Um, when those two things come through the accelerator, the um. I just want to double check to get this the right way around now. Um, um, yeah, um. Oh, I'm worried. I just want to get it the right way round.

00:40:00

Ron: Yes. Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Um, yeah. So chemical A relative mass of 10, chemical B relative mass of 100. Because chemical A is very light, it's going to take less of, um, less pushing basically by the magnetic force to bend it round that corner. Whereas heavy chemical B is going to shoot forwards into the end. Okay. Because it's being attracted because its mass is heavier. So it would take more force to turn it. We've already sped it up in the accelerator.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: So, okay, so imagine you had um, like a ping pong ball and a bowling ball.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: You roll them both down a, um, a uh, bowling alley at once and you stand on one side, flapping a tea tray, trying to get them to go into the gutter. A small amount of flapping is going to get the ping pong ball into the gutter. It's not going to change the course of the bowling ball at all.

Laura: No.

Ron: Some kind of industrial fan is going to blow the bowling ball.

Laura: So what's the point of this bit though? Why do we need them to go round a corner?

Ron: Because we can vary um, uh, we can vary the strength of this magnetic field. So we um. And you have the detection bit at the end that we haven't mentioned yet. So we know how much force we're applying to the corner and we know when something makes it around the corner. So we can then work out how much it uh, how much air, like the size of something by how much force it took to bend it around the corner. Mhm.

Laura: Right. It was all going so well until this bit.

Ron: I feel like I've lost you.

Laura: So it's the going round the corner that's the measurement bit.

Ron: Yeah. Because you see you've got that detection bit at the end.

Laura: So. So depending on how strong the electromagnet is in the, in the corner.

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: Some things will or won't go round the corner.

Ron: Yes. But we're gonna vary that magnetic um, field. So everything will make it around the corner eventually but at different strengths and we'll know the difference between those strengths.

Laura: Right. How do you think about how can they detect what's coming round the corner?

Ron: Um, with the detection plate at the end. I um, believe it's just, it's all. I think they just registers the, the charge of the ions hitting it. Yeah, it's negatively charged. So the.

Laura: Wait. Okay, so this is a little bit clearer now. So you've sent me another picture which shows the round the corner a little bit and there's like a uh, there's like another dam built in before the detector. So it's about the angle at which they're coming round and they'll only get through the gap if they've come round on the right trajectory. I m. Didn't understand that part of it. Now I understand. I see what you mean now. I didn't understand that there was like a small gap for them to go through. So if you, if you use too much or too little magnetic field they just bounce back off the sort of ah, cover. Whereas if you get the angle just right, it's like sort of a good snooker shot. They'll go into the pocket.

Ron: Exactly. Yeah. And then um. So if we take our simplified example of chemical A and chemical B. Um, chemical B is going to take 10 times the magnetic field to, um, bend it round to that point.

The magnetic field affects how an isotope goes around this corner

So we'd know that chemical B is ten times heavier than chemical A when we shoot it through this.

Laura: Yeah, yeah, Cool.

Ron: Extra credit here, Laura. What's the other thing with an isotope that would affect how it goes around this corner?

Laura: The weight.

Ron: That's the first one. That's what we're measuring. Yeah. So what property of the ice, um, of the ion is the magnetic field.

Laura: Interacting with the charge.

Ron: Yeah. Do all ions have the same charge?

Laura: No.

Ron: No. Which is another part of the calculations that you have to wrap in. So

00:45:00

Ron: if chemical B, so chemical A relative mass of 10, chemical B relative mass of 100. But if chemical A has a relative charge of 1 and a chemical and chemical B has a relative charge of two, then it's only going to take five times as much magnetic field to bend chemical B round despite its bigger mass.

Laura: So how do you get around that?

Ron: Just in the maths afterwards.

Laura: Maths man. Always mopping up where science fails.

Ron: Yeah, but that's cool, right? That's, that's dead clever.

Laura: Yeah. How do you even start working that out? Uh, this is the type of inventor I couldn't be.

Ron: One of the types of inventor you couldn't be.

Laura: Okay, we gotta stop there before my brain falls out my nose.

Ron: Okay. Then we will pick up next time with how to interpret a mass spectrum, which is what you get from mass spectrometry.

Laura: Yeah. Okay, Ron, good stuff.

Ron: How are you feeling about the, the kick up between.

Laura: Okay.

My confusion was why firing an electron would make it lose electrons

All right. Although I feel like this would have been a whole lesson at GCSE where it was probably a paragraph at a level, but it's taken us a whole lesson. I just think we're just gonna go slower.

Ron: Yeah, no. And, um, no, I think that would have been a whole level, um, whole level. Whole lesson at a level for people doing a level.

Laura: Okay. Yeah.

Ron: You're fine, don't worry.

Laura: The problem I have sometimes, and here's, here's a thing, is, is my, my tendency to want to ask, uh, a follow up question that will not help me understand it, but because I don't know the answer to that. So like there, my confusion was why firing an electron would make it lose electrons and where are those electrons going and how does that work? Where, Where, Like I understand that. I don't, I don't need to know that for this. That's not helpful or useful to know that. But then I end up wandering off down a daydream of wondering that, you know.

Ron: Yeah, that can happen. I've just sent you another. I, um, lost one of the pages I was looking at earlier, but I managed to find it in my search history. Um, but it's got some really good little drawings of all these different bits in it, so I've just sent you. The second one I've sent you there is the electrons bit. But that is dead simple. That is literally like marbles. It literally just knocks it out. Because if you think about, uh.

Laura: But then that electron doesn't take its place, that electron stays off as well.

Ron: No, because like the. The way that you get things on that level to kind of disassociate from each other or break, as it were, is just by them having too much energy to be contained by.

Laura: By the charge of the.

Ron: Exactly. Yeah. So if you've got a high energy electron coming in, it smashes into another one, gives that one high energy, but it's still got too much energy to then stay. Because if you think about snooker, you have to do the perfect shot to hit a ball and then your ball just takes that ball's place. Mostly they both keep on travelling.

Laura: I guess I've never thought much about electrons having energy.

Ron: We're going to be talking a lot about electrons having energy.

Laura: Yeah. Okay, that's interesting. So they're just sort of wanging around in that, um, in the ionisation chamber bit.

Ron: No. So it's literally an electrical current applied across the space. So those elect. Those high energy electrons are just completing the circuit by flying across the ionisation chamber.

Laura: Right, okay. All right. Well, I'm glad I asked now, because now I do understand that. I'm glad I asked my question.

Ron: At, uh, a level, you can ask the questions. The answer won't be later. It will be sometimes it will be later, but mostly not.

Laura: All right, good lesson.

Quisling is a term used in Scandinavian language and in English

Ron: All right. Bam. Um, a quiz. Quiz for you.

Laura: A quiz for me. A quizzling. That's an insult, isn't it? Shakespeare times.

Ron: Is it? Now you're the theatre buff.

Laura: I think so, anyway.

Ron: Doesn't sound like it.

Laura: I'm pretty sure quisling is like a person who collaborates with an occupying force in a country they are a citizen of. Oh, okay. It's a term used in Scandinavian language and in English to mean a citizen or politician of an occupied country. Oh, so not quite Shakespearean then? Talking nonsense. That's exciting.

An isotope is an atom with a varied number of neutrons

Ron: M. What's an ion? Laura?

Laura: An ion is an atom with a charge.

Ron: Is it always an atom?

Laura: No, Particle. A particle with a charge.

Ron: I give that. Yes. What's an isotope?

Laura: An isotope is an atom. I don't fully understand the definition here, but it is an atom with a varied number of neutrons. So it is. The isotope refers to the number of neutrons that an atom has.

Ron: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you understand that. That's good.

Laura: But so just to clarify with isotopes quickly, there's no. Like most zincs have eight neutrons. That's not right, is it? It's like.

Ron: No, no, no, that is right.

Laura: Uh.

Ron: It really varies per atom. Some. Like if, um, if we look at a periodic table, you'll see that some mass numbers are like 18.02. So the vast, vast, vast majority of those will be whatever it is. 18.

Laura: And would the one that's got 18 be an isotope? Or is it only things that are not 18 that are the isotopes?

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: So all atoms are isotopes?

Ron: Yes.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Um, yeah. So for example, oxygen. The mass on this periodic table is 15.9999. So vast majority is oxygen 16, which is an isotope. And then you get a tiny amount of oxygen. Fifteen probably might be a different. That's also an isotope.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Yeah. It's almost like in genetics like we. You would talk about the different phenotypes of uh, something like there's the blue eyed phenotype, the brown hair phenotype and stuff. And in a certain creature there might be a massive majority for one of them, but they're both phenotypes.

Laura: Yeah, yeah.

Ron: One of those, um, examples I gave that I see was not helpful as I give it. Um, all right, this one wasn't part of um, exactly what we're talking about in chemistry, but it's part of the sort of subject that we're quizzing on. So I thought I'd throw it in.

Molecule is a pair of atoms joined by a covalent bond

What's a molecule?

Laura: Molecule is a pair of atoms joined by a covalent bond.

Ron: Always a pair.

Laura: No, a group of atoms joined by covalent bonds.

Ron: Particle. Particle is the word to include in these answers more. Yeah, so it's a particle, um, with covalent bonds between the atoms.

Laura: Okay, Something like that.

Ron: But yes, covalent bond is the important part. Okay.

What's the mass number of an atom or an element

What's the mass number of an atom or an element?

Laura: The number of protons the element contains?

Ron: Nope, no.

Laura: The weight of the element.

Ron: And what gives that weight?

Laura: Neutrons and protons.

Ron: Yep. And then what's the atomic number?

Laura: The number of protons.

Ron: Yes, absolutely. Okay, cool beans.

What are the four parts Of a mass spectrometer

And then moving on to the second part of our, ah, chemistry lesson. What are the four parts Of a mass spectrometer.

Laura: Ionisation.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Acceleration.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Deflection? The corner.

Ron: Yep.

Laura: Yes. Because I talked about therapy. It was deflection and detection.

Ron: Deflection and detection. Very good. Oh, yes, Bonus point.

Laura: The other name for deflection, it was the electromagnet. Electromagnet.

Ron: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But just, uh. There was another name that we threw out. It's just a bonus point. You got it. All right.

Laura: No, I can't remember.

Ron: Ion drift.

Laura: Oh, yeah. Like Tokyo drift.

Ron: Yeah. Okay. How are the particles ionised?

Laura: You fire charged electrons at them and they displace the electrons in the particles.

Ron: Absolutely. How do we fire the electrons at them?

Laura: In a coil.

Ron: Yeah. What does the coil do to the space where the ionisation happens?

Laura: Energises it.

Ron: No, we've applied a voltage across it.

Laura: Right.

Ron: So that there's an electrical current basically going through there. Electrons flying through.

Laura: Yeah.

Ron: So give you one attitude for that. How are the particles accelerated?

Laura: Uh, by charging

00:55:00

Laura: a, um, by magnifying a plate at one end of the accelerator with a negative charge. So that the now positive particles are attracted towards it.

Ron: Yep. And then they shoot towards it. Okay. And then, um. For two marks. Why does the mass spectrometer vary the strength of the electromagnetic field used in the deflection?

Laura: Because, uh, it has to. It has to pull the particles through a small hole and the particles are travelling at different speeds due to their weight and their weight variation depending on the isotopes and their charge variation dependent on the size of the shells they have. So the, um, direction that they'll take through the deflector varies dependent on those factors. So you have to vary the charge to create the right route for them.

Ron: Um, very, very close. Relate that back to, um, the.

Laura: The magnetic field, uh, the speed they're going at as well.

Ron: Yeah.

Laura: So the magnetic field will pull them with different degrees of intensity. So if it's a slow, heavy particle, then it needs a stronger magnetic, uh, field to pull it.

Ron: Very nice. Two marks. Laura. Congratulations.

Laura: Crushed that.

Ron: Yep. See?

Laura: And I've already forgotten to write down anything about the quiz. Ron. So the spreadsheet backup is a good idea.

Ron: Yep. Your paper was the backup, but okay.

Laura: Okay.

Ron: Um, yeah, so you got 12.5 out of 13.

Laura: Oh, uh, one of my best ever quizzes.

Ron: Yeah. Um, I'm not putting the. The bonus point on there because it was a bonus point.

Laura: Fine. Don't care. Ah, what a beautiful day to be me M. Yeah.

I'm doing some topical comedy tomorrow on Radio 4

Ron: Now we stop talking about maths.

Laura: First chemistry round done.

Ron: Yeah, Very respectable.

Laura: I'm a respectable lady, you're not. I'm doing some topical comedy tomorrow, Ron. Well, it'll be out by the time this comes out actually. So I can just say I'm doing the news quiz tomorrow, m on Radio 4. So I've had to spend the day reading about the news. So depressing.

Ron: Is that Andy's Oxman?

Laura: Yes.

Ron: Yeah, that's fun.

Laura: It's just sad, Ron.

Ron: Well, it does. It's all a bit World War Three at the moment.

Laura: Yeah. And then you have to try and be funny about it.

Ron: Mhm.

Laura: Yeah, I understand. Why topical humour? Because it just provides a subject for each week, you know, but. Oh, oh.

Ron: I started making notes for the page of, um, stand up that I need to write for the Patreon M. Go.

Laura: On, let's have a little workshop now.

Ron: No, it's got to be fresh. I think the way that we'll do that episode is I'll write a page of it and then you have to perform it and then give notes as you go.

Laura: Absolutely not. No, I think what we'll do is you'll write a page of it and you'll perform it at, uh, cheerful Earful this year before our live show. So we've got a captive audience, the nicest audience you'll ever have. And then I'll give you notes in front of them after your performance.

Ron: No, I'm 100% not doing that.

Laura: Yeah, that's what's happening now.

Ron: No, I'm not going to do that.

Laura: Why?

Ron: I don't want to.

Laura: Why? That'll be such a nice, supportive audience. They'll love it.

Ron: No, that's just humiliating me.

Laura: Why is that humiliating you?

Ron: Because I've never done stand up before.

Laura: Yeah, so when else are you gonna have a better time to do it than in front of an audience who already knows and loves.

Ron: They don't love me. They love you. They tolerate me.

Laura: Yeah, and they'll tolerate your first ever attempt at stand up.

Ron: No, I'm not doing it. That's not the way this is gonna happen.

Laura: When are you gonna perform it then?

Ron: I'm not gonna perform it. I have no interest in becoming a stand up.

Laura: Well, I have no interest in performing your weird material.

Ron: Alright then we'll scrap that episode. The world's our oyster. It was a blank canvas. We could do whatever we want.

Laura: You never said it would be me performing it.

Ron: Well, no, just you read through it. Someone's

01:00:00

Ron: got to read it.

Laura: Oh, Ron, you can't just read it. It has to be performed. It comes alive off the page.

Ron: But okay, then we'll scrap the episode. No way am I doing that.

Laura: I think you should perform it.

Ron: No.

Laura: Why?

Ron: I don't want to for the reasons I've said.

Laura: Fine. All right, then.

Episode notes are a really important part of the podcast getting found by new listeners

Ron: Um, this, uh, is gonna be a squabbly episode that we're about to record after jail. Thing is, Laura's got the afternoon sleepies. I'm in a bad mood because I hopped on the call and first thing she does is criticise me because she.

Laura: Didn'T make any notes for the episode.

Ron: One time. You get away with anything you like on this podcast because you. You're the severest snake looming over it, checking everything.

Laura: No, because I'm the one that mops up all of the energy deficit so I make good notes. Because if I don't make good notes, I just have to write it again later when I write the episode notes for every episode, you just go, oh, I didn't do notes this time. Sorry. It was one time, Laura. Without going, oh, I'm sorry that. Now I've put that on your shoulders to do that work, Laura, just copy.

Ron: And paste one from before.

Laura: But it's a different episode and the show knows half of that. Helps it come up in the search engine optimization.

Ron: It's not that different.

Laura: They're a really important part of the podcast getting found by new listeners. Ron, who says all of the podcast marketing strategy that you read.

Ron: I don't read any of that.

Laura: I know, Ron. Just get another job that I do.

Ron: Just get a job chat GPT to ship.

Laura: I also add an AI generated one when the episode goes out. Ron. So don't give me that, because I do that too. But you can't generate the chat GPT for it or whatever it is until the episode's gone out. And then the AI reads that and I add it underneath my notes, so already do it.

Ron: Sometimes I. I think you do too much in weird places.

Laura: Oh, yeah, we're too successful, Ron. That's what we are. Too successful.

Ron: No, but it's just.

Laura: It's too much to do a paragraph on what the episode's about in the show notes.

Ron: I told you what the episode was about in the notes. That was the one thing I wrote down.

Laura: Alright, for this episode, then I'm just gonna copy and paste Ron's notes. So if you're one of those people that reads the episode notes and you're thinking this is sparser than a shit bird's nest, that's why. Thank you, Pete Stanton. Pete is now in charge of doing all the episode notes for Lex education. Pete will get sent the episode ahead of time and it.

Ron: Oh, so when I do write something, you then don't even read it out for the register?

Laura: Yeah, I've decided to improvise because apparently I'm putting too much effort into the wrong places. So I've decided to cut all effort about reading stuff Ron's done. Do do do do do do do do. Pete is in charge of. Of whatever the hell Ron's written down. Pete's in charge of reading out Ron's writing and reading it to Laura because she doesn't read his bullshit anymore.

Ron: Fine by me.

Laura: Thanks, Pete. Sorry that you're the pawn in our divorce. At least you get two Christmases now. Thank you so much for upgrading, Pete.

Ron: I wrote you a really funny register, Pete. Laura's just stopped giving it and now.

Laura: He'S too much of a sulky little bitch to read it out himself. Because that would be more effort than Ron intended to put into this podcast, which is approximately one hour a week.

Ron: Oh yeah, because that's all I do is the recording.

Laura: Mhm. Thanks, Pete.

Ron: Class dismissed.

01:03:55